Talk:2008 - (08/04/2008) Dynamis and Limbus Get a Makeover!
Hmmm, I wonder if the decrease in Dynamis Hourglass will result in more expensive or cheaper Dynamis currency for those of us trying to purchase coins/shells/bills for Relics weapon upgrades. --Illivatur 12:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC) That would depend solely on whether or not new shells spring up because getting into Dynamis is cheaper. On Garuda at least, there's a shortage of currency lately, and prices have been going back up. I don't see the prices drastically lowering because of a lower fee, since the supply of currency would remain the same (unless increased drop rates is including currency). Still, here's to hoping, I'd love to finish Horn off! --Woooodum 12:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Lets hope. But i can see where ever tom dick and harry is going to do Dynamis and messing up every LS meeting time out there. -- 12:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Actually theres alot to concider, introduction of the new relic pieces will cause a lesser demand in alot of currency, couple that with a large influx of people deciding its time to start making their 'normal' relics because they expect things to be cheaper now should cause a large demand, i do believe the currency will hover around what its been at, at least for a while. --Rayeneth 12:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Yes... but if everyone starts to do Relics the demand for coins will go up, as will the price. And if there are more coins available due to cheaper Dynamis than the price will remain relatively speaking, the same. But if people still think Relics are a waste of gil it benefits those few of us that want to strive for the best and get Relics. --Illivatur The jump in demand will stifle itself if the prices go back up. Why would new starts use the glass price as an excuse to start their relic when they're paying the same old price for coins? Any change in demand here depends entirely on if the coin price changes and nothing else. The price can’t possibly stay the same though. If sandy and windy stay at 800-900k with a 500k glass, then people will start low man farming parties. They only need a measly 110+ coins to double their money. Smaller agile farming parties like this will fit between the 4 hour sessions set down by large LS. I anticipate less idle time for the zones for a brief period, until it’s no longer profitable. --MishaRamuh Fairer for all? "In the end, however, the decision was made that such means would be largely unfair by rendering only players with these jobs capable of accessing new game content. Therefore, all of the above items will be procured in the same way as their predecessors, namely via exploits in the Dynamis and Limbus areas." How is this fairer to people with ToAU jobs? If someone has levelled pup cor or blu as their main (like me) chances are they don't do dynamis and will need to now find a shell they can attend in. However, this means starting from 0 points, while all the people with multiple jobs get all the pup/cor/blu relic first (even though they'll get less use out of it). I fail to see how this is "fairer to all". Nice job SE. /angry Blazza 12:37, 4 August 2008 (UTC) :Consider it this way. If a new battlefield was added specifically for these new pieces of equipment, and only these new pieces of equipment, people with the jobs levelled will find it exceptionally hard to get the people to enter the battlefield(s) with them. As such, it would be difficult, and unfair, to obtain these drops. I think it's great of Square Enix to put these drops in regular Dynamis. It means people will still be given the oppurtunity to get these drops like everyone else. Same applies to Limbus, if there is AF+1 being added. --Woooodum 12:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC) IMO, you should all be happy that they're even adding the Relic AF for COR/PUP/BLU... --Illivatur 13:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC) ::I would assume that the Limbus reference is to AF+1, however that's not such a big dealas dynamis, as every limbus shell I've ever been in (I've been in a few unfortunately) has been free lot on AF+1 materials (I'm also lucky enough to be the only blu in my current limbus LS). My point still stands about dynamis though, I'm sure I can't be the only person that hasn't been doing dynamis because I have one of the only 5 jobs in the game that has no use for it. This puts me at a severe disadvantage to anyone that has one of those other 15 jobs and attends dynamis regularly, don't you think? ::I would never suggest making a new battlefield solely for the relic gear of 3 jobs, I'd also be hesitant in suggesting they should have been made to drop from Einherjar or Salvage, as gear is much harder to aquire there and are also both completely different systems (unless the relic armour was made as a drop from standard mobs in salvage or einherjar, as it is from dynamis). ::I'm just incredibly disappointed with the decision to make the new relic gear drop from dynamis, and I doubt I'm the only blu (pup/cor) in this boat. I unfortunately have a life outside of FF, and don't get as much time to play as I'd like to. Which is why I decided to level blu and make this one job as good as I can, as opposed to levelling multiple jobs when I know I wouldn't have time to fully merit them all, let alone get all the required rare/ex gear. The fact that I can't really think of a better option (although I don't mind the idea of having them drop from regular mobs in einherjar, at least this battlefield already has gear for all jobs and is a 36 player arena) doesn't change the fact that I think they could have made a better choice here. ::Also to Illivatur: Can't really say if I'm happy about the inclusion or not until we see the stats. I can assume that AF+1 head and body will both be good, with hands legs and feet being meh, relic could be anything though. But honestly, aside from the desperate need of more blue magic skill + gear, I don't see the need for it. There's a good chance a lot of it will just be e-peen until it becomes much more common, and probably just make people without it look gimper than they really are in comparison. Blazza 13:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC) :::I can understand where you're coming from on this, since it's the reason I've been avoiding Dyna shells. It's so late in game play now that it would be next to impossible to get the "points" required to get the items, since every shell I've ever talked to is also full of unpleasant people that will take things just because they have the points and feel like it; I've even talked to one that's dropped his PLD Relic set three times because he knew he could just claim it again. :::However, it's not S-E's fault. Leaving the Relic armour dynamic in Dynamis was a logical intelligent decision, and will re-encourage more participation in an "older" event set, and the same goes for Limbus. How we, as players, choose to reward or punish people that participate in those events is not their fault. Yes, yes, I hear you saying that they should take our game style into account. But honestly, it makes sense the way they did it. :::And to the way above person who complained that this will make people throw off his "raid" times... You're just going to have to readjust, or get more organized. I've listened to complaints from one shell that their "scheduled time" was "stolen" from them, only to find out that they "claimed" it, and still hadn't started two hours later. I wouldn't wait that long for someone else, either. It's this sense of elitism ("every tom dick and harry" sic) that makes people both inside and outside the EGLS frustrated with end-game activities. :::If you really want to stop this "interference" before it started, you should open your recruitment parameters, relax your rules a bit, and then start snapping up these "troublemakers" before they can "screw up" your raids. You might even make them better players. --Baroness 14:18, 4 August 2008 (UTC) I apologize Blazza if it seemed offensive, I ment it as in look at SCH/DNC, they dont get anything yet. Also alot of people in my Dynamis LS believe BLU/COR/PUP will be better than current Relic AF, look at just the BLU/COR/PUP NQ AF... it's 2-3 times better than ANY other jobs NQ AF... so you can assume that the Relic AF will be twice as powerfull... what other job 75 uses full AF like BLU.. every piece of BLU AF is um.. powerfull on its own. --Illivatur 14:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC) :::What? BLU's AF is not that good. It's good, but compared to other AFs, it's not that great. Really. The only *truly* amazing piece is the body. Also, wth on SCH/DNC. ToAU jobs have been out for years now and they're just now getting their relics. Wait for the merits at least for SCH/DNC. --Azulmagia 02:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC) ::::No apologies necessary, I know where you were coming from and I hope I don't sound like I'm snapping at everyone or just having a really big whinge. Just trying to start a friendly discussion, and most comments here are good ^^. I have to say though, I have seen 75 blu's walking around in full AF, and I laugh at them... Body is good for nearly everything except tp, head is good for certain nukes/debuffs (yes, there is a time and place for blu's gimpy magical spells), hands and legs are ok for solo-ing (extremely good ~60, not so at higher levels) and legs are just... umm... well I guess spell interruption rate down would be good for something, not something you should really have an issue with @ 75 with 307 skill though. The learning spells thing on the hands is good while levelling, but once you have all the spells it's entirely useless. ::::And yeah, if I was a SCH or DNC I'd be looking for merits more than relic armour at this stage. AF1 only came out a very short time ago, and the jobs themselves are quite new. Hell, people are only just now starting to realise that lolpup might not actually be that bad. Hardly anyone seems to have levelled dnc or sch to 75, even though sch is an awesome 75 job (I can't really blame them for not levelling dnc, what it offers at 75 isn't enough of a difference to what it offers at 37 as SJ imo). Merits > Relic for SCH/DNC Blazza 03:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC) :::::I suppose the situation changes per shell or per server. In our linkshell, we only have two to three Blue Mages, one Puppetmaster, and I'm fortunate enough to be the only Corsair. We work with a points system. Depending on how frequently this lot drops, new members will get a quality shot at drops; even new members after non-ToAU AF get good shots at it. Blazza, no disrespect meant, but you're knocking and putting something you're not a part of down. There could be lots of linkshells on your server to suit your predicament! Try them and find out, you might find getting BLU AF a lot easier than you think. --Woooodum 11:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::Wooooodum; While I've only done dynamis twice, I have been a member of a few different shells that also have run dynamis. I also know that a hell of a lot of people in this game will lot things because they can, regardless of whether or not someone else will get a lot more/better use out of it. Obviously this isn't to say that everyone is like this, and nor is it to say that every dynamis shell will have 20 other blus with more points than me. I've already been slightly on the look-out for a dynamis shell, but have yet to find one that suits my times. I guess now I'll just have to look harder. I'm not happy about what has now become a necessity to do dynamis, but doesn't mean I'm gonna give up :) (anyone out there on odin that has a dynamis shell doing runs around midday JP time, look me up! >_<).. Anyway, I think I stopped being contructive... actually, I'm not sure I've been constructive at all :D --Blazza 14:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC) I suspect this gear will be worth the effort to gain it . most Relic gear has its uses be it in a very specific area / situation or something that you wont switch out . Either way it's pretty exciting . I know a few BLUs in my LS that will be happily bidding on it no matter what the boosts .--MIKUMARU 14:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Wasn't relic gear added to "fix" the bridge between the old and new level caps? Back when the cap was not 75, artifact gear was some of the best gears possible for most slots. When it was updated to 75 they added relic gear to make a "WHM look like a WHM" and still have decent stats even though they might not be the best. People also need to understand, if they put the best stats on AF or relic gears then there would be no reason to work for anything else. BLU/COR/PUP get pretty cheated out of decent gear, relic and AF+1 should help as long as someone with half a brain is giving out the stats. BLU AF is horrible and even the body is only good for certain spells. The BLU head is pointless even when the bonus is in effect because a cheap +STR/+acc head item can provide a bigger boost than its effects. Any bets we'll see something completely off-the-wall on BLU relic like "+10 CHR, -15 STR, +5 throwing skill" lol ... prove me wrong SE! --Bekisa 01:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC) :BLU AF is horrible? O_o How many jobs do you know of that can seriously wear AF at 75? Blu body is the only piece that gives +blue magic skill (except for an uber rare belt from assault that gives +3 in salvage where it's generally not needed anyway) making it the best piece you can get for landing debuffs on anything end-game. Considering the gear that blu can't use, the +3 STR and DEX also makes it pretty damn good for physical spells too, the very few things better are negligible or just not realistically attainable for the majority of blu's out there (Is the acc and +1 STR of Vishnu's worth the 3 DEX difference? Do you have a good enough group to get Enkidu's Harness? Are you insanely lucky enough to have Morrigan's Robe?). :AF Head is quite decent for all your magical spells (I'm still developing my INT and MND builds, so not 100% sure what's out there) because tehre's not much that can beat +3 INT/MND, and the monster correlation is not to be sneezed at on the few occasions you can use it for magical spells (head is not a physical head piece in any sense, but can actually be worth it over voyager sallet with /thf depending what spell you are using on which mob, test the difference in damage between AF head and Voyager Sallet on Genbu with Ram Charge - please note that I still don't have that damn sallet >_<) :Hands are a great piece for learning all your spells, which is the biggest hurdle in getting to 75, and these days that's really all AF is for isn't it? Getting you to 75. The Parrying skill is not to bad either, but there are of course much better choices for both tp and spells at 75. :Feet are fine for tp until you can get homam gambieras I think, as I can't think of anything for feet that give acc or attack, so the +10 evasion skill may save you from taking a hit here and there. :Legs are... yeah ok legs are crap :Anyway, my point is that blu AF is generally some of the best in the game, how many jobs have 4 pieces of AF that are still usable at 75? (I only use 2, but that's still better than most jobs) - Sorry about the rant... I'm sleepy --Blazza 16:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC) Stats If you take a look at all the 15 Jobs with +1 items from Limbus and their respective gear, there's obvious trends in what the +1 versions do. They increase most stats by 1 or 2, add a new stat on, or increase / decrease enmity. There are very few cases where the +1 AF actually increases a skill (Wizard's Gloves +1 give no further Elemental, Warlock's Tabard +1 gives no further Enfeebling, etc). The focus on the +1 will probably be making the stat boosts more powerful, whereas the relic armours will provide entirely new skills and attributes altogether. I doubt very highly, for example, that Corsair's Tricore +1 will further increase the Quick Draw effect. Just expect 1 more STR and 1 more Ranged Accuracy. --Woooodum 16:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC) :Umm... a fair chunk of AF+1 does actually increase the skills of the NQ AF. Seeing as Blu AF body already has +15 blue magic skill, I wouldn't expect to see any more than that on AF+1, I would expect to see +15 parrying skill on gloves and +15 evasion skill on feet, but that's still not enough to make me wear them (certainly better than a lot of AF, but there is better stuff out there). :I mean though, that AF+1 head will probably have INT and MND +4 (Which in some cases - not many, but some - is even better than morrigan's for blu as it also has mosnter correlation), AF+1 body will likley have +4 STR and DEX, as well as the pre-existing +15 magic skill (which aside from the lack of accuracy, makes it better than nearly everything for physical spells). :What I was really referring to in the need for more blue magic skill + gear, was relic armour. I can't imagine there's going to be 6 entirely new pieces of gear and none of them will have blue magic skill + on them. Either way, it'll be interesting to see what SE does with the relic armour. Blazza 03:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC) Increased drop rates Thank you SE... youre starting to do things right, these last few updates have been huge jumps in the right direction finally!Maverick 22:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Just hope they don't go overboard with it. Lately I've been seeing everyone running around with items that were once hard to get. I remember being one of the first WHM on my server to have a Cleric's Belt and getting comments 10+ times a day on how cool it was. Same with Tamas Ring and Omega Ring. Now I see completely clueless people with what was once godly and rare gear. They've made too many things "too easy" ... just look at CoP missions now. Heck, Einherjar is a joke now. You can get 15k points in a month even if you never win. 2k points from a tier 3 loss ... wtf lol. The still rarer items on Ramuh are, as always, the same ground kings only drops. D.ring, ridill, dalmy, gaiters. Gaiters and Dalmy are getting very common too now though. Soon as this dynamis update comes, the relic price will drop from ~40mil to ~20 via sponsored runs ( +/- badluck and I'm using approx. Aegis cost) provided they don't increase/decrease currency drop rates. --Bekisa 01:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC) SCH & DNC Maybe next year after the expansion is complete AF will be released for them. i forgot, but how long did it take for ToAU jobs to get AF? Thank u so much SE! as they mention, the overall econ. was much diffrance from the currenct fees. but still since limbus only allows for 18 and cities dyn is 64, what about CoP and tavnazia dyn, should be lower them even more. Another thx to SE add a better looking PUP af since it was kinda gay like AF. --Kongolo 00:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC) ::At least now we know where we can expect to find SCH & DNC AF+1 and relic. So if you're a new player and only have SCH and DNC at 75, start doing limbus and dynamis and banking up points now! Blazza 03:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC) --- ToAU + ToAU Jobs - 4/18/06 ToAU Job AF - 7/24/06 (97 days) ToAU Merits (Group 1) - 7/24/06 (0 days) ToAU Merits (Group 2) - 6/05/07 (316 days) ToAU Job AFv2 - 9/??/08 (456+ days) WotG + WotG Jobs - 11/19/07 WotG Job AF - 3/10/08 (112 days, 15% slower) WotG Merits (Group 1) - 9/??/08 (175+ days, infinitely slower) If this is a pattern, we will see Scholar and Dancer's AFv2 in 772 days, or just in time for the October 13th, 2010 version update. See you there! --Taeria 05:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)